A young gentlemen was pre-approved. While a small loan, it is significant for him since it is the very first house he has ever bought. The closing date is on the back end of November's Ides...
The supporting documentation was collected and the appraisal was ordered, yet over the weekend, he spoke to the Family Attorney. Mr. Attorney recommended that he shop around. Alas, the chap was "approved" at a local bank at an interest rate that was about a half percent lower than we quoted. So, he went that way.
Days later, meaning today, it so happens that the local bank turned him down. While getting into specifics may be a bad thing, they low-balled a legitamate rate they could offer him and their debt ratio requirements are tighter than an amateur porn star's balloon knot. (No, you didn't just write that. Yup, I did.) They turned him down.
So, we are starting over to an extent. The appraisal must be re-ordered and now we can actually send the file to Underwriting.
I'm a champion of folks shopping around, just not so late in the game.
The next time you shop, try the Family Attorney.
How do you ever have time to do both mortgages and X rated movies?
Gassett - X rated movies pay better;)
I sold a horse farm in MD to a family a while back.
When we got to the settlement table, YES, that is settlement table, the attorney representing the trust selling for 5 survivors, advised them that they should not settle.
His rationalle? The loan was FHA insured. He told them that they should cancel that closing and look for a good buyer that could put 20% down. The title office conducting the closing managed to let common sense prevail and the sellers, embarrassed, went through with the closing.
And the ignorant survive. Will natural selection ever work???
Jason, I am constantly amazed at the people clients take advice from...I had a buyer, in love with a place (and all approved to buy) call and cancel after speaking with her accountant. I asked couldn't he come up with his portion of the down payment?. She said...what do you mean he's not buying the place with me??. Exactly I said!!
Fun Story about Mortgages, a reminder for us Agents, to keep our buyers informed
....on a side note...I'm not perfect, but the Adviser in me would suggest: an updated photo (minus the camera phone); it is so H.S. ! soorrry, but I have one in H.S. and those are the pics they take. And I'm assuming you are working on your X-rated name for that line of business?
People are often thrown a curve by advice from others who have no idea of the market. Plus we deal with the commercials on the radio and tv saying I just bought a foreclosure for $18000... patience....
Jason,
It's just amazing to me how people will grasp at straws when they have good solid advice. Go figure.
Mike in Tucson
They hire a qualified professional Realtor but god forbid that we would actually listen to them!!!
Lenn - "Will natural selection ever work???" Doubt it. Evolution of anything seems dead around most parts. Screw it, I'll just moisturize and await the sun. Then again, I'm more optimistic than most:)
Steve - I just hope their advice is better than ours. I'll leave it at that.
Crystal - Yeah, my porn name is Michael Pine. And I'll update my photo sooner rather than later. Sorry to be H.S. about all this, but I'm dealing with folks on the verge of Social Security... what do you expect? And to be Frank, Sunflowers are your picture?
Hi Jason. I'd rather be working on my branding, websites, etc. right now.
Ahhh, the old bait and switch. And of course they want to close by the end of the month...
Pat - While I love diving into food when watching them, Infomertials SUCK! And I can hit the curve ball:)
Mike - The last time I grasped at a straw, I got Milk on my chest. No more "grasping" for me.
Edward - God forbid.
My buyer lost a home as a FHA buyer to a buyer who had conventional financing in a multiple offer situation for a very competitive property and the seller's mom (an old and retired realtor) lambasted FHA loans, saying it was a bad deal and the seller required my buyer to get approved through their own lender of choice and go conventional. My buyer refused, they accepted the other offer, and this seller netted 8K less because of BAD information and knowledge. Thanks Mom!
It amazes me how non trusting people can be. There are bad apples in every profession imaginable but most people are good honest, hardworking people just trying to do their job. Why do they (parents, relatives, accountants, attorneys, etc, etc,) try to sabbotage the transaction that we are trying to do. The buyer loves the house, is approved for the loan, inspections go well, everything is in order and then someone plants a seed of doubt ........
Susie - Not a bad idea. But when customer service beckons... I call.
Julia - But of course:)
:(
I wish you better luck in the future MP.
Chris - I'd make it a habit to never breast feed off her nipple again;)
Diana - I admire the way you think, though I welcome you to the scary world we live in.
Why is it, when it comes to the real estate/mortgage process, people will listen to everyone but the ones who do it for a living.
Mr.Pine,
Your fascination with porn is understandable. In this short post your client screwed, the bank was pimped, and a commenter add bestiality.
And then a little girl with barely hidden lust wishes you luck.
Bill
Seems like deal killer are coming from everywhere these days.
Short and sweet. I just had a realtor tell my client to use their "in house lender." Let's just say that they are back.....sad when other feel the need to control.
Too bad more buyers don't shop family attorneys (and family friends who happen to be agents or lenders) more carefully. Unfortunately, buyers don't know what they don't know...
Mike #18 said what I was going to say....why do they listen to friends and family before us who sell for a living and see hundreds of homes and know what the buyers want.I told a client to add brush nickle drawer openers to their cabinets.
Their bible study told them no.
Guess who they listened too.
shop the family attorney... heh, heh, heh...
(Mr. Pine... I remember him, his nickname was Woody)
After a while, we see it all. It is good that in this case the buyer came back to you, as often they are much too embarrassed. We rarely get to see what rate buyers actually settled at because, again, they are too embarrassed to share that info. Re: Lenn's comment, my experience is that the # of good attys are akin to the # of good Realtors, loan officers, etc. I'd say usually not half of them are worth squat. ESPECIALLY when it comes to real estate.
That's the best...I love it when unqualified people give advice. I once had a client tell me her friend thought it was a bad idea to buy a house in this market. I asked her what her friend did for a living...she answered, "oh she's a house cleaner!" What the &^^*&^!!!!! Amazing....
Jason:
This is not the first time I have seen an attorney totally mess up a real estate transaction - and cause real harm to their own client. People often misplace their trust in wrong advisers.
Jason - sad story, and good advice....if something ain't broke...don't fix it. Have a better day today!
Another reason why we as realtors must always keep our clients informed of the process, so that hopefully they will make mistakes sooner than later
Dear Woody Jason, The kiss of death is the family friend, the shopping around of mortgage rates, and usually, the attorney, who so earnestly wants to look like he's earning the fee he is charging, creates something but problems for everyone else.
Freakin' nosy Attorneys! I've had that happen too...every single time I have to save the deal at the last minute. Just wait for the new GFE guidelines in January..then we will all really start having some fun.
Shopping for a better rate was common in the easy credit period. Today, once a file is underwritten they need to stay put.
Too many cooks in the kitchen will spoil the soup I was always told. Everybody gets bad advice sometimes in there life.
My daughter just lost a deal, already in negotiations, because the buyer's (she's a single woman) brother said that was a rediculous price for a home. Brother has never been near this area, has no real estate experience, has not seen the home in questions and is not involved in his sister's purchase at all. But big brother just had to look out for little sis.
Truth is, the house was a steal, prices at the beach cannot be compared to inland homes and the potential buyer had the assistance and advice of an experienced, trained and highly ethical broker.
Too bad.
Confucious says: "He who seeketh the lowest rate and fees will find neither"
Translation: "You can shop too much"
Then they probably sent them a bill...
No Lenn- The ignorant get protected and cuddled so they never have to be responsible for their inaction or actions.
Jason- love your honesty:) I can not stand it when people shop without comparing apples to apples. Attorneys seem to love to mess up deals. One screwed us out of our commission on a sale of a property last year and the retainer fee to recoup our commission was more than our commission on that particular mess, so we had to just bite the bullet. Attorneys also love to tell sellers not to do short sales and then to do them the wrong way, they tell all kinds of misinformation. Also, in the loan mod scams look at the principles in these plays- attorneys are the owners, the presidents, etc. They don't even get disbarred after they have been indicted!
Of course some bad apples don't spoil the whole bunch and we know very good attorneys who we recommend to our sellers all the time that I would trust with any situation that I have.
Yes you did...
Wow, I am working with two first time home buyers who were referred to me and we are down to the wire for that end of November thing. Fortunately BOTH got it together and had preapproval BEFORE we started last month! As far as the attorney, he might want to shop around in that dept. too...Good work my friend and it's nice to see a gold star by your name ALL WHILE GETTING AWAY WITH SOME MISCHIEVOUS BEHAVIOR!!
Don't you love all the interesting advice from folks that don't know a lot? I wish we could all require a preface for these less than knowledgable sharers rotten wisdom. The should be required to say... "I don't know for sure, but..." Attorneys giving advise can and should be disbarred and/or sued (they have insurance).
This is comment is going to be a bit off track but still relevant so I thought I would chime in and give my 2 cents as to why people are listening to their accountants and attorneys or anyone other than us (Real Estate professionals and Mortgage professionals)
To me it all boils down to education and how easy it is to get a RE lisc. I for one wished that it took 10 times more schooling and money to get and maintain a lisc in this profession. We may have a lower volume of people but the ones that do keep at it will be more qualified and in the eyes of the consumer more respected.
Now I am not saying that doctors that went through all the education that they did automatically deserve to be listened to just because of the diploma they carry, look at how many overweight docs there are that prescribe cholesterol drugs to patients instead of educating them on diet and physical activity all the while they need the advice themselves the most.
What do you guys think?
Sometimes the best advice is NO advice. Don't you love it when your client goes to family members or friends who just think they know everything there is to know. The don't want their friend or loved one to trust the professionals because they think the professionals are only in it for the money.
Damn straight we are in it for the money, but we are also professionals in a chosen field, there to service and help others in their journey to finding and purchasing a home.
I am seriously considering the porn industry as an alternative. Is there any demand for an almost 53 year old male. Get me my walker.
Shuli: How many hours of training do attorneys take in real estate and lending?
We had a buyer this week talk to his attorney and the guy told the buyer that he (the attorney) doesn't like or trust real estate agents, and is he sure the agent is not pushing him to buy this house?
The buyer stuck up for his agent and swore yes he really wants this house.
I once had a deal where the lender was also a drycleaner. I had to get my trusted lender who I use all the time to fix things. She did this work for free just to make the deal work for me.
Drycleaner/Lender, bad news.
That guy up there Wayne Raulikn, is ficticious. That was actually me before I signed on that the K accidentaly pressed. Good Porn Star name maybe.
Thanks for the post Jason. I'm a fan of shopping around and going with the best deal. However, sometimes plans don't go according to plan.
Almost everytime a buyer strays away from our list of reccomended lenders weird things start to occur ! In most cases these issues leave the deal in jeopardy !!!
I really think it all comes back to trust. I know that whatever rate I quote, someone will always be able to beat it. It is important to have the interest of the borrowers at heart, provide them the best information and communicate with them. By just going with the lowest rate usually results in what happened to that borrower. I am sure that if that family attorney gave them a fee for a particular legal service, I could find another attorney who can do it for less. You get what you pay for.
We need to continue to share these stories when educating our buyers at the beginning of the buying process! Sometimes all it takes is someone else's boo-hoo file to help a buyer see the light.
Jason..I always tell my clients ..Not to shop rates..Service rates .I tell them nightmare stories so they don't stray..( all true) A good mortgage man is hard to find! ...:0)
HELPFULHANNAH your friend in Philadelphia
Hi Jason~ So many times the buyers or sellers take advice from others. You would think that an Attorney's adivce would be good, but in this case it obviously wasn't! Hope you can get it done in time!
Jason: Events such as this has now caused me to ask up front ... who else will you need to consult with? Sometimes it is a parent, a boyfriend (I always recommend upfront CPA and/or tax attorney) but these last minute ... oh wait ... second and third thoughts ... fourth and fifth opinions ... when we are ready to close ... come on now .... give me a break! God Bless Attorneys, or anyone else, who knows nothing about real estate and so graciously offers their free advice ... which mostly only hurts people!
Paul is right... it all comes down to trust. Without it, promises are merely vaporous imaginings.
Gotta love #17 to Chris... still laughing out loud...
It pays to have mortgage people that we can trust and that are good.
Jason, the only individual with accountability and loyalty in this mortgage loan saga is you. I always question the motives of others who give advice freely without the credentials, expertise or authority to do so. This young man is very fortunate to have you as an advocate.
Jason - I could really have done without that porn visual, but I digress. It's amazing who and what first time buyers will believe. "Friends", "family" and "others (usually contractors)" can talk them out of anything with very little effort. Hope you can salvage this one. Best wishes!
Jason, interesting what people will do. Everytime I think I have seen "it all" (or close to it) something absolutely crazy happens.
Attorneys spend about 5,minutes in law school on real estate. In this case maybe he should have doubled that to 10 minutes before giving advice he was not trained for.
I absolutely love the raunchy truth of this post! Well said!
MJ - You know MP. MP doesn't need luck:)
Mike- Good question. If I have concerns regarding my car, I'm certainly not going to ask my brother (who knows nothing) about such matters. I think part of it is due to the negative perception about us folks. I believe a lot of people think we are just money grubbing SOB's who don't own a heart. One of these days I might just prove them wrong by printing out a bank statement and cutting open my chest:)
Bill - Always wise and witty, my friend. Very nice:)
Mark - That's why we all need more deals...
Bettag - "In House" lenders gave me a bad taste in my mouth for years. Then I came to a realization that there are some very good ones. That written, Realtors know SELLING HOUSES ... competent lenders KNOW HOW TO FINANCE THEM. As long as there is no kickbacks involved, I have no problem with a Realtor referring someone to their "In House" lender as an option... as an option, and no kickbacks.
Brian- While buyers are more informed (in my opinion) than ever, they are more mis-informed than ever. Make sense?
Missy - I think Mike raised a very astute, spot-on, and relevant question... one that is raised often, yet practiced little.
Hopefully, they listened to you:)
May - And he is one heck of a pecker;)
Steve - Great point. And that's a sad reality.
Michael - Are you related to Ronald? Anyway, I can give the best advice possible on how to clean hardwood floors:)
Claudette- I love Attorneys. They charge by the hour. I'm going to study up and start charging by the second. There are many good attorneys, many good loan officers, many good realtors, custodial engineers, porn stars, actors, writers, etc. I don't know if this chap was the wrong advisor, or if this advisor chimed in a little bit too late.
Christine - Every day is potentially better than the next:)
Wendy - ... Or to make few mistakes at all.
Susan- The disgruntled Woody Sardi agrees.
Jeez, forget the loan, I wanna see that balloon knot! ;)
Jason, you'll be there to save the day for the buyer and hopefully a lesson will be learned here. Idiots come in all shapes, sizes and relatives.
This blog provides some excellent information. Thank you!
Jason, I hate to sound stupid, but WTF does "tighter than an amateur porn star's balloon knot" mean? A balloon knot? Never mind - maybe I shouldn't know.
Jason - ROTFLMAO over "The next time you shop, try the Family Attorney" and #19's metaphors. Reading your post was the perfect way to spend my lunchhour playtime in the rain. I'm not sure what's funnier, your post, your comments or your responses. Anyway, I'm still laughing at some of them.
My favorite "advisors" are parents who have no legal and/or financial stake in the transaction and haven't bought a home or applied for a mortgage since I looked as hot as an amatuer porn star (and never you mind about my balloon knot and yes, Gregory, you don't want to know).
Jason,
Well put and you're funny too. I think.
Melissa - Oh, it will be a grand old time.
Steve - Collectively, we created the problem by marketing "Historically Low Interest Rates".
Laura - I just want some quality Fois Gras.
Marian - Big brother probably is looking out for his own best interests... that he is the "head" of the family.
Confucious is Tom Burris.
Dawn - I'd venture to guess that is a fact.
Katerina - Well put. I'm thinking very seriously of going to Law School...
Russell - Mischievous? If Crouch is a pin, you'd be a cushion. How's that? :)
Hollis - Can I sue you for commenting on my post?
Shuki - Interesting question. I suppose I'd answer differently if I was paid by the hour, yet you can license us to death and "educate" us until we are blue in the face with knowledge... but we never rarely get paid until our job is done.
Wayne - Priceless comment. I spit up (literally) after reading it. No worries, I hear Ron Jeremy is looking to pass the torch;)
Burris - My guess is, "Not Many".
Erica - While I didn't mean for it to go this way, this is becoming a 'bash the attorneys' post. Wonderful. They can have my garage.
On a lighter note, I believe you folks have it going on over there. In every regard, you're above the book.
Wayne - I don't know, Wayne "Cleaning & Steaming" Raulin sounds like a operative porn name to me;)
Ilyce - And if I have the lowest rates and no fees, simply run.
Michael - I don't mind recommended lenders, especially if there are three given out by the source that is supplying them. From this post, I'm sure you can gather what I do mind.
Paul - Congrats! That's the best comment I've read. So very true. I'll read you for that comment alone.
Becky - And I'm hoping we are making sure that the light they're (buyers) seeing isn't one coming from a train.
Hannah - A good man (mortgage or not) is always going to be hard to find. Luckily, I know a chap in Allentown...
What's a balloon knot? Is it like an adjustable rate mortgage?
Jason, ah the old bait and switch game. Every time attorneys touch anything I swear it is a deal killer.
Jason, People are getting bad advice all over the place right now. It sucks when we know we can help but they second guess what we tell them.
Where the hell am I?
Oh, got it...
Vickie - I'll have my nimple up every rear to make sure it gets done on time. That's my job...
Kathleen - Well done. Free advice often costs a great dime.
MJ - Does this do the trick?
Matt - Some nipples are better than others...
James - True that.
Roseann - And he is unfortunate in that I have no redeeming certifications in this world. Luckily, I surpassed that crap before it surpassed me.
Emily - One of my true talents rests in visuals, but I digress. I'll take care of the chap.
Bob - Murphy's Law.....
Thanks Jason. We are indeed swamped with business right now. I have 2 listings this week I got and have not had the time to photograph properly yet. The past 3 days I worked 12+ hours each. Heading out now to 6 pm appt.
I have many many lawyer friends, and work well with most attorneys. Some of them, however, make our jobs harder.
Indecisive buyers will get advice from everyone, and try to follow all of it. Drives me nuts!
Clients just seem to always be looking for the impossible deal
The lowest rate isn't always the best option especially late in the game.
Good call, Jason. And LMAO at the porn star's balloon knot!!!
I have found that to be the case too often when quoted a great rate, suddenly they aren't approved -- quotes aren't committments!!!
Often times these peeps end up with the biggest liar! Glad he came back to you!
I just had a similar experience but lost the deal completely. I billed the client for my time (After having worked the deal for 9 months, they pulled out 4 days before closing..thanks to the realtor) Believe it or not, I actually received a check for 50% of what I billed them for, with an explanation for the reason they felt they only should pay what they paid.
Is anyone charging an application fee or a cancellation fee? If so, what is working? Iam tired of putting all my time and effort into working with inconsiderate and disloyal people. Your thoughts?
Jason, Thanks for the entertainment reading your post and all these great comments! I wonder if the attorney wwas on the board of the local bank?
Interesting metaphors. I'm curious what others you have up your sleeve.
Joe - You've highlighted my problem with that field. Unless they are a Real Estate Attorney, I find little reason why they should be involved in this particular business at all.
Christianne - Nobody's raunchier than I:)
James - Not mine, man. I'm a leeking...
Lyn - I'm there. Hopefully that will help to save the day.
Aaron - I'm glad we could introduce you to the balloon knot:)
Greg - In case you haven't already found the answer, here's a clue...
you'll find it the next time you wipe.
Donne - Don't you dare ruin it for Gregory:)
Brian - You're wise to think...
Cheryl - "Forewarned is forearmed with our Buyer Clients." Those are typically the best type.
Brenda - It's similiar. With both, you can get screwed.
Gary - I'm not typically a fan.
Bryant - True that.
Erica - That's excellent and not surprising. You need a good "IN HOUSE" lender;)
Stephanie - Luckily, I'm already nuts. It just drives me now....
GMS - And I don't blame them. I blame us. We are the way they shop.
Team Honeycutt - Very true. The best 'deal' is the one you can close at.
Mark - If I billed people for time put in and they paid, I would never bitch again. Those are my thoughts.
Chris - Perhaps, that's a thought. Local Banks can come in handy, but don't always fit or flip the bill.
Melissa - Stick around. If this Mortgage Gig doesn't work out, I'm going George Carlin on everyone's behind;)
I'm all for shopping early on. I also let them know that the lenders are paying money to run credit and taking time to meet with them and that their time isn't free so to take that into consideration. Hopefully your buyer realized that he was in good hands the first time.
It is awesome how people get such good advice from those NOT in the business.
Shopping around when you are up against the wall isn't always a great idea. I have had people lose homes and earnest money deposits from things like that...
This has happened a few time to me this year. Each time I get someone that tells me they are leaving for the "Bank" I share my previous experiences. I have had a few reconsider and a few that call back and ask if their loan can still be done. At least they came back to you and didnt try another "Bank" out there.
I hate it when a lender promises the moon and then delivers nothing. Some of them just don't care.
Well now you've got nothing to do but close the darn thing.
This certainly gives me something to think about. Thank you.
David - That's the type of respect I appreciate and try to bestow on others.
Damon - Isn't it?
Lane - That's a fact. The shopping process should start long before entering into any Sales Agreement.
John - It does say something when folks come back. It seems a lot of times that they are embarrassed to do so when the grass isn't quite as green as they previously thought or were told.
Barbara - That's why I only promise the stars;)
Heather - You said it:)
Kyle - If you read the comment thread, you'll have plenty to think about;)
Aaron aka Kyle, you might want to actually read Jason's post. You made a similar generic comment in this thread earlier...I'm just sayin'
I thought we DID have one (or two) ... you guys.
Jason - You are a poet indeed ! Great story !!! Keep us posted with the next chapter !!
Ugh! That's so frustrating Jason! That's why I love working By Referral Only. First of all when they are referred to me, half the battle is won because they trust the person who is doing the referring, therefore they trust my advice. Secondly, to maintain that trust clear up to the closing and beyond, I have installed By Referral Only touchpoints. I have these touchpoints in place throughout the transaction from the initial meeting with them all the way through the closing and beyond. That way when they get advice from their well meaning "trusted friend, family member, family attorney, etc.", they are not so quick to just jump ship because they know they can trust me and all the advice I give them. I'm happy to tell you more if you'd like to know more.
Jason - I get so tired of sh!$ like that. Tell your client to send the attorney the bill for the appraisal and ask for a refund of his legal council fees for bad advice.
Russell - Good call. I noticed that as well. I'm just trying to be polite ... for once;)
Erica - You do:)
Chris & Stephanie - Thank you all the way around. I will hopefully be following up on this near month's end.
Nyssa - I shot you an email. I look forward to speaking with you.
Nevin - I only wish, my man. Believe me, the thought runs through my head like corn through a goose.